Thursday, January 31, 2008

1 month down

So I ran my self-imposed time trial today, which essentially consisted of me going to the gym to run on a treadmill so that I could make sure I knew the correct distance and time. I ended up finishing 4 miles in 36 minutes, running negative splits at 1 mile, 2 miles, 2.75 miles, 3 miles, 3.5 miles, and 3.75 miles. I only mention this to lead up to these questions:

1) Do you think that running on a treadmill gives you an unfair advantage? Specifically, do you think that you run faster because it propels you forward a little?

2) Is it better to try and run negative splits or to set a pace and try and keep it up as long as possible (until finishing a bit faster)?

3) If you are going to try and run negative splits, what is the best way to structure that?

At least 1 real running question per month....guaranteed,
jlowe

7 comments:

Micah said...

1. I have never liked treadmill running and don't know anyone who thinks they can run as well on a treadmill as they can on two feet and terra. In short, no.

2/3. Yes, but the method is up to you. To speak in a convoluated math/physiological definition, I think that you should prefer splits that are increasingly slightly negative. I'll use two examples to explain.

First, the physiology of running is all about rates and limits. (Oddly like calculus, it seems). You want to hit your limiting rate as late as possible in the race and mathematically you should stay as close or under the curve as possible. You can't physically run the same splits positively as you can negatively, even though it should consume the same energy, because your body has hit closer to the limit earlier and begins to shut down (you've hit the wall).

When learning to fly everyone loves wind because it makes you go so much faster. Also, it makes you go so much slower, unless the wind is always at your back. Consider a 500nm flight at 100kts airspeed. With no wind it takes 5hrs each direction. With a 30kt tailwind (130kts gs) it takes 3.85 hours. With a 30kt headwind it takes 7.14 hours. You've now turned a 10 hour trip into 11 hours by adding a 30kt wind.

I don't think that a high slope to your splits helps much because you have to run so far under pace in the beginning and you can't make that time back. Then again, running is 90% physical and 110% mental, so the perfect splits are different for every runner.

Micah said...

also this by kevin beck

jlowe said...

So you think the treadmill is a hindrance. It seems to be easier to me because (1) it's always flat (unless you change it), and (2) for non-trained runners such as myself, it forces/allows you to relax into a specific pace. It simplifies the rhythm of the run if you will. I always sort of looked at that as an extra tool I could use to make myself run faster.

As for the negative splits, I find that in everyday running my runs tend to start out faster slow down progressively to a certain pace and pick up at the end. I read the Kevin Beck article, and it was very interesting to note that the Kenyans train starting out quite slow. It is good to know we both have slow parts to our training.

In all seriousness, do you guys make an effort to incorporate negative splits into your run, or do you just go out and try to keep a certain pace?

Micah said...

i don't think that treadmills are hindrances to training, and in the respect that it helps you learn to pace and feel the pace it is a great help. for me, the treadmill is a hindrance to running freely and quickly; i don't need any help understanding me or the event i'm running so the treadmill only constricts my free movement (both literally and figuratively).

in normal training runs i try to run negative splits purposefully, but this is also easier with practice. like the beck article, it becomes a way of running. i don't run by time but by feel.

on the other hand, my best training run ever was a 20-miler on the track, each mile negative by at least 5 or 10 seconds. that was purposeful and the benefits were tremendous, though mentally difficult.

jlowe said...

First of all, I'm happy if I run negative splits over a 4 mile run. (See original post.)

Secondly, 5-10 sec negative for 20 miles!?!? Please tell me you started at an over 9 min pace.

Lastly, thanks for the help. I think that I can gain a lot from this discussion if I really try and plan out some things with the training. I'll get back to you at the end of this month with my newest quandry.

Micah said...

i lost the logs, i'm quite sure, because my account with coolrunning.com went inactive, but i'm pretty sure it went from around 8:30 to under 6:45. i was near race pace (7:15) incredibly early so i had to back off and i remember finishing quite fast. and it was surprisingly easy. the laps themselves did fluctuate naturally, but not by too much; they weren't as rigid as it would seem. in any case, that was the only structured negative long run i've followed, and i count it as a track workout anyway (which are mostly structured negative runs).

scott jackson said...

Jacksonian thoughts on the treadmill:

I think treadmills have their appropriate time and place for training. Overall, running is an individual sport, and you have to find what works best for you, so jason, if you feel running on a treadmill is really helping you, that is great, keep using it. A couple reasons why i like the treadmill: gets you out of the freezing cold and/or rain, etc. it is more cushioned than running on pavement, and hills... i like to use the treadmill for doing some bursts up hills. As far as my history with treadmills go, i always thought i could run much better outside.. for some reason an 8 minute mile seemed a lot faster on the treadmill... maybe that was just me. One thing i would caution jason is not to get TOO used to treadmills. Think of the way you are using a treadmill now like "training wheels". They serve a great purpose, but are not meant to be used forever. when u compete in races, you will not have the benefit of the treadmill, so Eventually you need to practice carrying out smooth paces on the track... do you have access to a track??? if you spend a lot of time timing laps and playing with the pace, you will find that you can "feel" certain paces... i know after some training on the track, i really get good at pacing. Even though i time my laps if i am doing a specific workout that calls fot that.... i could run pretty much a very accurate timed lap without a watch, if someone were to tell me to run a 2:00 lap, 75 second lap, 85 seconds, or whatever. biochemestry/exercise physiology would say that running even splits at first, and finishing with negative splits in the end, will give u the best time..... running too hard in the beginning will put you too much in the anaerobic mode.. causing all sorts of trouble: increased pH in the muscle, pyruvic acid build up, oxygen debt, and tons of other things that i cant remember. i remember knowing that i was dead in my first race ever in the University level. there were some heavyweights there, like university of arkansas. My first mile of the 4 mile event was in 4:53. I have no idea in hades how i hit 4:53, considering that was my fastest mile time ever, with still 3 miles to go.. i knew i was in for it.. sure enough i got the "monkey on the back" syndrome and was running like 8 minute miles from then out.